Does Dumars Deserve Praise For Trading Chauncey Billups?

Was the Billups-Iverson trade good for the Pistons?

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Does Dumars Deserve Praise For Trading Chauncey Billups?

Postby Piston Boris on Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:58 pm

From MLive.com Full Court Press:
Looking back, does Detroit Pistons general manager Joe Dumars deserve praise for trading Chauncey Billups?
By Justin Rogers | MLive.com
November 13, 2009, 10:45AM


At the beginning of last season, Detroit Pistons general manager Joe Dumars made a controversial trade, sending fan favorites Chauncey Billups and Antonio McDyess, along with developmental talent Cheikh Samb, to the Denver Nuggets for former MVP Allen Iverson.

A comment by MLive.com reader Bassethounds in the latest "About Last Night" got me thinking. Are we giving Dumars enough credit for what this trade accomplished?

From the start, the move had a dual purpose: To shake up a stagnant, aging roster while remaining competitive for an NBA title and to free up future cap space to accelerate the inevitable rebuilding process.

We all know that Dumars' short-term vision fell well short of its intended goal. Iverson never fit in with the Pistons, and instead of making a run at a title, the Pistons were bounced from the playoffs in the first round as Iverson watched from the sidelines.

The important question becomes, did Dumars kickstart a successful rebuild on the fly? Let's look at a few facts.

* Despite his resurgence with the Nuggets last season, Billups was on the decline in Detroit. Billups scoring, assists and rebounding numbers all declined between the 2005-06 and 2007-08 seasons.

Although the trade rushed the transition, the Pistons were grooming Rodney Stuckey to replace Billups. By trading Billups away, Stuckey was forced into the starting lineup and gained invaluable on-court development. Instead of playing 15-20 minutes a night in a reserve role behind Hamilton and Billups, Stuckey was able to play more than 30 minutes a night last season.

He may never fill Billups' shoes, but Stuckey is well ahead of where Billups was at this stage of his career.

* The Pistons used the $20 million freed up by the trade to sign Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueava. Both are extremely talented offensive players who are under the age of 27. Both are also doing a better-than-anticipated job on the defensive end of the floor.

* Speaking of age, had the Pistons retained Billups, the team would have been significantly older. As has been pointed out by several sources, if you factor out Ben Wallace, the average age of the Pistons' rotation is under 25.

Knowing what we know now, was last year's agony worth it or would you rather the Pistons have retained Billups?
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Re: Does Dumars Deserve Praise For Trading Chauncey Billups?

Postby Piston Boris on Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:01 pm

Heck, yes.

I saw when the Bad Boys came of age--and declined.

I knew Dumars was acting to prevent a repeat of history. It was unfortunate that the Iverson experiment failed, but Dumars needed to trade Billups while his value was high.

Stuckey isn't a polished star now, but he's developing. I'm the patient type.

Props to Joe Dumars for putting us on the road to the future. :bow:
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Re: Does Dumars Deserve Praise For Trading Chauncey Billups?

Postby Crusher on Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:37 pm

I agree.

Chauncey did a great job with Denver last year, but I doubt he would've played as well as he did if he hadn't been traded.
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Re: Does Dumars Deserve Praise For Trading Chauncey Billups?

Postby Cavalier Marcus on Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:42 pm

Too early to say whether or not the Chauncey move was one to be praised. I understand getting cap relief while you still can and making moves to get younger, but he essentially traded Chauncey Billups for Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva. A couple of young guys, but in a traditionally defensive-minded team it doesn't make a ton of sense that they went out and picked up two offensive-minded players (although their defense hasn't seemed to miss a beat, has it?).


That being said, both players have a lot of talent and have been playing well and will continue to play well. We haven't seen what this team is truly capable of, and if they can tread water until the injuries pass, they may surprise some people in the Eastern Conference.
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Re: Does Dumars Deserve Praise For Trading Chauncey Billups?

Postby Piston Boris on Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:50 pm

Cavalier Marcus wrote:Too early to say whether or not the Chauncey move was one to be praised. I understand getting cap relief while you still can and making moves to get younger, but he essentially traded Chauncey Billups for Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva. A couple of young guys, but in a traditionally defensive-minded team it doesn't make a ton of sense that they went out and picked up two offensive-minded players (although their defense hasn't seemed to miss a beat, has it?).


Kuester has gotten the entire Piston team to commit to defense. Both Gordon and Villanueva have also said they want to be complete players. And it doesn't hurt to have a rejuvenated Ben Wallace showing them the way. :man10:

Cavalier Marcus wrote:That being said, both players have a lot of talent and have been playing well and will continue to play well. We haven't seen what this team is truly capable of, and if they can tread water until the injuries pass, they may surprise some people in the Eastern Conference.


+1

I'm also curious to see how Cleveland progresses as Mike Brown integrates Shaq, Moon, and Parker. I hope that Delonte West can get his life and career back together.
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Re: Does Dumars Deserve Praise For Trading Chauncey Billups?

Postby Cavalier Marcus on Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:17 am

Piston Boris wrote:
+1

I'm also curious to see how Cleveland progresses as Mike Brown integrates Shaq, Moon, and Parker. I hope that Delonte West can get his life and career back together.



We all want West to get better, but he is becoming more and more attractive as a trade chip. In the deal that the Cavs had on the table for Stephen Jackson, they would have signed and traded Wally Szczerbiak as well as Delonte West for Jackson. Rumor has it that Golden State turned down the better Cleveland package for a worse Charlotte package just to spite Jackson and send him to a non-contender for all the embarrassment and trouble he had caused that franchise over the past couple of months. There is still speculation (per John Hollinger of ESPN) that Jackson could still be traded to Cleveland before the trading deadline (he is eligible to be traded starting January 16th).

Anyway, getting back on topic... Parker has slid into the starting 2 spot rather well. Shaq is continuing to develop a chemistry with the other players but is currently out with a shoulder strain for an unknown amount of time. My guess is that he will be back after the Cavs' stretch of two straight back to backs. Moon is slowly starting to earn more playing time with the deactivation of Delonte West.

The biggest and most pleasant surprise of the Cavs' season thus far is the play of JJ Hickson. He has posted career scoring numbers in three straight games, and the Cavs have won 5 straight since he was inserted into the starting lineup, including wins over Miami and Orlando, both in Florida. Overall, Hickson is averaging 14.8 ppg as a starter and 19.6 ppg in his last three starts. His value is really skyrocketing, but it's not entirely certain the Cavs will move him now, unless it is in a homerun deal for a very good All-Star.
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Re: Does Dumars Deserve Praise For Trading Chauncey Billups?

Postby Piston Boris on Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:39 pm

Cavalier Marcus wrote:We all want West to get better, but he is becoming more and more attractive as a trade chip. In the deal that the Cavs had on the table for Stephen Jackson, they would have signed and traded Wally Szczerbiak as well as Delonte West for Jackson. Rumor has it that Golden State turned down the better Cleveland package for a worse Charlotte package just to spite Jackson and send him to a non-contender for all the embarrassment and trouble he had caused that franchise over the past couple of months. There is still speculation (per John Hollinger of ESPN) that Jackson could still be traded to Cleveland before the trading deadline (he is eligible to be traded starting January 16th).


I'm sure there's an element of spite. How interested do you think Charlotte would be in Szczerbiak and West? Jackson is a legit scoring theat, which Charlotte desperately needs?

Cavalier Marcus wrote:Anyway, getting back on topic... Parker has slid into the starting 2 spot rather well. Shaq is continuing to develop a chemistry with the other players but is currently out with a shoulder strain for an unknown amount of time. My guess is that he will be back after the Cavs' stretch of two straight back to backs. Moon is slowly starting to earn more playing time with the deactivation of Delonte West.

The biggest and most pleasant surprise of the Cavs' season thus far is the play of JJ Hickson. He has posted career scoring numbers in three straight games, and the Cavs have won 5 straight since he was inserted into the starting lineup, including wins over Miami and Orlando, both in Florida. Overall, Hickson is averaging 14.8 ppg as a starter and 19.6 ppg in his last three starts. His value is really skyrocketing, but it's not entirely certain the Cavs will move him now, unless it is in a homerun deal for a very good All-Star.


Thanks for the info. I'll be curious to see Hickson, Parker, and Moon in action.

How do you like Mike Brown's offense and lineups?
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